Comments on: Republicans disavow the Constitution in favor of fear-mongering http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/ The Conscience of the Republican Party Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:04:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: RDC http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1176 RDC Fri, 29 May 2009 01:07:56 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1176 Are you kidding me? Whoever said that even legitimate "enemy combatants" as defined by the Geneva Convention hold Constitutional rights? And those being held at Gitmo are not even "enemy combatants" fitting the Geneva Convention definition. Before becoming our prisoners they did not conduct themselves according to the rules of war under the Geneva Convention either. If this were not so sad, I'd consider this posting a foolish prank. Are you kidding me? Whoever said that even legitimate “enemy combatants” as defined by the Geneva Convention hold Constitutional rights? And those being held at Gitmo are not even “enemy combatants” fitting the Geneva Convention definition. Before becoming our prisoners they did not conduct themselves according to the rules of war under the Geneva Convention either.

If this were not so sad, I’d consider this posting a foolish prank.

]]> By: Frank http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1168 Frank Tue, 26 May 2009 20:43:34 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1168 BTW, Gitmo has been repeatedly inspected by independent, third-party groups w/o secret far-left anti-American agendas and as long as many people who inspect the conditions approve of them, why should we close a facility that has kept this country safe for the past 7.5 yrs. in the name of appeasing terrorists??? Islamic extremists will always hate us and nothing we say or die can change that. Our only hope for the future is to wean our dependence off of Middle Eastern oil that secretly funds Madrasas and instead become totally energy independent by whatever means necessary. I remind conservatives that "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" BTW, Gitmo has been repeatedly inspected by independent, third-party groups w/o secret far-left anti-American agendas and as long as many people who inspect the conditions approve of them, why should we close a facility that has kept this country safe for the past 7.5 yrs. in the name of appeasing terrorists??? Islamic extremists will always hate us and nothing we say or die can change that. Our only hope for the future is to wean our dependence off of Middle Eastern oil that secretly funds Madrasas and instead become totally energy independent by whatever means necessary. I remind conservatives that “Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”

]]> By: Frank http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1167 Frank Tue, 26 May 2009 20:38:02 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1167 I don't know how many beheading and public executions of US prisoners by al-Qaeda and the Taliban and these other rogue regimes throughout the Middle East to convince people that this a WAR, a FIGHT to the DEATH! Until Americans adopt that mentality and that simple approach that these terrorist animals are going to treat us like scum no matter how we treat them, we will NEVER win this "WAR on TERROR"!!! Gitmo works, and although the max-security prisons in Colorado and Illinois along with the aforementioned facility in Montana would work for some of the less violent ENEMY COMBATANTS, not POWs, the HVTs, like KSM and Abu-Zabydid that are responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on 9/11 never deserve a trial or rights afforded to those combatants who are at least brave enough to fight behind their nation's flag. Von Clausewitz was right that one should either wage total war or no war at all!!!! I don’t know how many beheading and public executions of US prisoners by al-Qaeda and the Taliban and these other rogue regimes throughout the Middle East to convince people that this a WAR, a FIGHT to the DEATH!
Until Americans adopt that mentality and that simple approach that these terrorist animals are going to treat us like scum no matter how we treat them, we will NEVER win this “WAR on TERROR”!!! Gitmo works, and although the max-security prisons in Colorado and Illinois along with the aforementioned facility in Montana would work for some of the less violent ENEMY COMBATANTS, not POWs, the HVTs, like KSM and Abu-Zabydid that are responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on 9/11 never deserve a trial or rights afforded to those combatants who are at least brave enough to fight behind their nation’s flag.
Von Clausewitz was right that one should either wage total war or no war at all!!!!

]]> By: Linda Walker http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1164 Linda Walker Sun, 24 May 2009 20:49:24 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1164 This "torture" business greatly upsets me. As a former fed, NO ONE in the public is in any position to make these condemnations unless you are sitting in the hot seat and presented with information that must be concealed from the public for security reasons. Trust me, there is MUCH MORE that you DON'T know--than you think you do. Just remember, other countries DO NOT share the same "legal protections" promoted here. This “torture” business greatly upsets me. As a former fed, NO ONE in the public is in any position to make these condemnations unless you are sitting in the hot seat and presented with information that must be concealed from the public for security reasons. Trust me, there is MUCH MORE that you DON’T know–than you think you do. Just remember, other countries DO NOT share the same “legal protections” promoted here.

]]> By: KN http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1162 KN Sun, 24 May 2009 05:30:54 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1162 You guys are kidding, right? They are NOT US citizens and they have never been in the US. They have NO Constitutional rights, nor would they respect the rights of anyone in this country, and would take the first opportunity to kill as many of us as possible. But that doesn't even matter. It's NOT about hysteria or fear-mongering, or anything of the sort. The simple fact is that these people are illegal combatants (defined as persons not a member of a national army who committed acts of war prior to their capture) who due to that status have NO rights under the Geneva Convention (since they are not under the flag of a signatory to the GC), NO rights under US law (since they are NOT US citizens and were not apprehended within the US or any of its territories) and are, for all intents and purposes, subject to the whims of the US military. They are lucky that they have been captured by the US military, and not some other country (particularly the countries they come from), because they would likely have suffered REAL torture, prior to be summarily executed. If a country is not to be permitted to hold prisoners from the enemy during a war, at least until the end of hostilities, then the only intelligent thing to do is TAKE NO PRISONERS. There are only two ways that this can be accomplished in a war: let them all escape on the battlefield to fight again (insane) or kill them all at the time (immoral). Finally, if your thoughts on this are based on some notion that the "Golden Rule" applies in international relations, you need to find the next departure back to the real world, because you are apparently living in a fantasy world. The US is pretty much the only country in history that has ever cared about the surviving population of countries defeated in war, and we also are one of the only (if not the only) countries that did not take punative measures against conquered enemies at the end of hostilities. The only extent to which the islamic fanatics who we fight would take our treatment of prisoners at Gitmo into account would be to see that we were weak and silly and consider it another reason to wipe us out. The Rule Of Law has no bearing here, because there are no laws that apply. These people were not apprehended as criminals: they were captured in a war. To the extent that they have been questioned (by "torture" that isn't torture or by any other means) it was NOT to gather evidence against them for the purposes of trying them... it was to gather intelligence of their plans and those of their allies to PREVENT FUTURE ATTACKS on the US. Even if one was to grant that they should have "legal" proceedings, the information gathered from the questioning would not be relevant, since they would not be accused of anything that they gave information about, since those things had not yet happened. The ONLY reason that Gitmo is getting any attention at all is that George Bush was the President when it happened. If it had been Bill Clinton, Nancy "the misled" Pelosi et al would be throwing parties to celebrate how successful the administration had been in stopping terrorist attacks since 9/11. You guys are kidding, right? They are NOT US citizens and they have never been in the US. They have NO Constitutional rights, nor would they respect the rights of anyone in this country, and would take the first opportunity to kill as many of us as possible. But that doesn’t even matter. It’s NOT about hysteria or fear-mongering, or anything of the sort. The simple fact is that these people are illegal combatants (defined as persons not a member of a national army who committed acts of war prior to their capture) who due to that status have NO rights under the Geneva Convention (since they are not under the flag of a signatory to the GC), NO rights under US law (since they are NOT US citizens and were not apprehended within the US or any of its territories) and are, for all intents and purposes, subject to the whims of the US military. They are lucky that they have been captured by the US military, and not some other country (particularly the countries they come from), because they would likely have suffered REAL torture, prior to be summarily executed. If a country is not to be permitted to hold prisoners from the enemy during a war, at least until the end of hostilities, then the only intelligent thing to do is TAKE NO PRISONERS. There are only two ways that this can be accomplished in a war: let them all escape on the battlefield to fight again (insane) or kill them all at the time (immoral). Finally, if your thoughts on this are based on some notion that the “Golden Rule” applies in international relations, you need to find the next departure back to the real world, because you are apparently living in a fantasy world. The US is pretty much the only country in history that has ever cared about the surviving population of countries defeated in war, and we also are one of the only (if not the only) countries that did not take punative measures against conquered enemies at the end of hostilities. The only extent to which the islamic fanatics who we fight would take our treatment of prisoners at Gitmo into account would be to see that we were weak and silly and consider it another reason to wipe us out. The Rule Of Law has no bearing here, because there are no laws that apply. These people were not apprehended as criminals: they were captured in a war. To the extent that they have been questioned (by “torture” that isn’t torture or by any other means) it was NOT to gather evidence against them for the purposes of trying them… it was to gather intelligence of their plans and those of their allies to PREVENT FUTURE ATTACKS on the US. Even if one was to grant that they should have “legal” proceedings, the information gathered from the questioning would not be relevant, since they would not be accused of anything that they gave information about, since those things had not yet happened. The ONLY reason that Gitmo is getting any attention at all is that George Bush was the President when it happened. If it had been Bill Clinton, Nancy “the misled” Pelosi et al would be throwing parties to celebrate how successful the administration had been in stopping terrorist attacks since 9/11.

]]> By: Nancy Sellers http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1158 Nancy Sellers Fri, 22 May 2009 01:28:51 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1158 I agree with you 100%. I agree with you 100%.

]]> By: Sarah http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1157 Sarah Thu, 21 May 2009 16:07:59 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1157 Aaron, pretty hard to disagree with this...I fear many of our children will be in youth brigades and subject to this very same torture. I hope it doesn't take that long for American's to wake up. The rule of law seems like such a foreign concept, if we are unwilling to demand civil justice we will likely reap what we sow. Aaron, pretty hard to disagree with this…I fear many of our children will be in youth brigades and subject to this very same torture. I hope it doesn’t take that long for American’s to wake up. The rule of law seems like such a foreign concept, if we are unwilling to demand civil justice we will likely reap what we sow.

]]> By: Jeff E. Jared http://www.rlc.org/2009/05/20/republicans-got-it-wrong-again/comment-page-1/#comment-1156 Jeff E. Jared Thu, 21 May 2009 16:06:32 +0000 http://www.rlc.org/?p=901#comment-1156 Agreed. Due process and rule of law should trump the hysterias of the moment. Agreed. Due process and rule of law should trump the hysterias of the moment.

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