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	<title>Comments on: Pro-Equal Rights Groups Will Be Excluded from CPAC Participation in the Future</title>
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	<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/</link>
	<description>The Conscience of the Republican Party</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13742</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Feb 2011 01:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13742</guid>
		<description>&quot;@Tim Condon: Government-marriage has always been about government using its power to shape culture. Initially, it was about preventing interracial marriages (i.e., the use of government force to prevent cultural change). As long as government runs the marriage-monopoly, marriage will be a political football. One can hardly blame homosexuals for wanting to play in the same political football game with everyone else.&quot;

Yes, as long as one accepts the distinctly non-libertarian position that government should have a monopoly on the use of marriage to shape culture in whatever way those in government see fit.  Accepting that government monopoly as long as the government uses it to force a condition you might view as fair is just as wrong as someone else demanding that government force the opposite outcome.  The RLC shouldn&#039;t be in favor of gay marriage, but rather in favor if ending government meddling in what should be  private matter.  There&#039;s no legitimate government activity that currently is conditioned on marital status that can&#039;t be handled just as easily and without 95% of the &lt;i&gt;&quot;sturm und drang&quot;&lt;/i&gt; by the use of civil unions (with our without a religious or other form of marriage).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;@Tim Condon: Government-marriage has always been about government using its power to shape culture. Initially, it was about preventing interracial marriages (i.e., the use of government force to prevent cultural change). As long as government runs the marriage-monopoly, marriage will be a political football. One can hardly blame homosexuals for wanting to play in the same political football game with everyone else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, as long as one accepts the distinctly non-libertarian position that government should have a monopoly on the use of marriage to shape culture in whatever way those in government see fit.  Accepting that government monopoly as long as the government uses it to force a condition you might view as fair is just as wrong as someone else demanding that government force the opposite outcome.  The RLC shouldn&#8217;t be in favor of gay marriage, but rather in favor if ending government meddling in what should be  private matter.  There&#8217;s no legitimate government activity that currently is conditioned on marital status that can&#8217;t be handled just as easily and without 95% of the <i>&#8220;sturm und drang&#8221;</i> by the use of civil unions (with our without a religious or other form of marriage).</p>
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		<title>By: Parke Bostrom</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13484</link>
		<dc:creator>Parke Bostrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 06:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13484</guid>
		<description>Video of Al Cardenas&#039;s comments is at the below link, about 8 minutes in:

http://c-span.org/Events/Washington-Journal-for-Wednesday-Feb-16/10737419656-2/

His basic quote is: &quot;If you are group... and you advocate for gay marriage, that is not within the scope of what we believe the three legs of the stool are&quot; [and consequently, such groups will not be invited to the next CPAC].  The three legs are fiscal conservatism, social conservatism and national &quot;defense&quot;.

At the same time, Cardenas makes clear that (a) the exact vetting process has not been designed, and (b) all groups will pass through the same vetting process.

Later on, in response to a follow-up question, Cardenas again mentions gay marriage, and goes on to mention gays serving in the military.  I have to think mentioning gays serving in the military is a slip-up on his part.  Gays have been serving in the military since at least President Clinton, and probably since the days of the American Revolution.  Additionally, as DADT has been repealed, groups no longer need to advocate for gays to be able to serve openly.  That victory has been won, and over three quarters of American&#039;s support the repeal.  Is CPAC going to require every group that exhibits at CPAC to call for the reinstatement of DADT, or a complete ban of gays in the military?  I doubt it.

@Tim Condon: Government-marriage has always been about government using its power to shape culture.  Initially, it was about preventing interracial marriages (i.e., the use of government force to prevent cultural change).  As long as government runs the marriage-monopoly, marriage will be a political football.  One can hardly blame homosexuals for wanting to play in the same political football game with everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Video of Al Cardenas&#8217;s comments is at the below link, about 8 minutes in:</p>
<p><a href="http://c-span.org/Events/Washington-Journal-for-Wednesday-Feb-16/10737419656-2/" rel="nofollow">http://c-span.org/Events/Washington-Journal-for-Wednesday-Feb-16/10737419656-2/</a></p>
<p>His basic quote is: &#8220;If you are group&#8230; and you advocate for gay marriage, that is not within the scope of what we believe the three legs of the stool are&#8221; [and consequently, such groups will not be invited to the next CPAC].  The three legs are fiscal conservatism, social conservatism and national &#8220;defense&#8221;.</p>
<p>At the same time, Cardenas makes clear that (a) the exact vetting process has not been designed, and (b) all groups will pass through the same vetting process.</p>
<p>Later on, in response to a follow-up question, Cardenas again mentions gay marriage, and goes on to mention gays serving in the military.  I have to think mentioning gays serving in the military is a slip-up on his part.  Gays have been serving in the military since at least President Clinton, and probably since the days of the American Revolution.  Additionally, as DADT has been repealed, groups no longer need to advocate for gays to be able to serve openly.  That victory has been won, and over three quarters of American&#8217;s support the repeal.  Is CPAC going to require every group that exhibits at CPAC to call for the reinstatement of DADT, or a complete ban of gays in the military?  I doubt it.</p>
<p>@Tim Condon: Government-marriage has always been about government using its power to shape culture.  Initially, it was about preventing interracial marriages (i.e., the use of government force to prevent cultural change).  As long as government runs the marriage-monopoly, marriage will be a political football.  One can hardly blame homosexuals for wanting to play in the same political football game with everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Krista Palmertree-Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13412</link>
		<dc:creator>Krista Palmertree-Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13412</guid>
		<description>My partner/wife and I do not want special rights, we just want her to have the same rights to obtain treatment, make decisions, etc. for our children.  My ex-husband who has far less invested (except genetically) in the children has the right to make decisions, but she doesn&#039;t.  If you insist that we don&#039;t deserve special rights and the government stay out of marriage, then that should apply to everyone-gay or straight.  Either make marriage even across the board for all couples who chose to make that level of commitment, or take marriage off the table as a legal commitment for everyone.  My wife and I have a legal domestic partnership and had a marriage ceremony for friends and family.  I see no reason why, if the government shouldn&#039;t mandate marriage (which it I&#039;m all for), the same type of situation shouldn&#039;t work for everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My partner/wife and I do not want special rights, we just want her to have the same rights to obtain treatment, make decisions, etc. for our children.  My ex-husband who has far less invested (except genetically) in the children has the right to make decisions, but she doesn&#8217;t.  If you insist that we don&#8217;t deserve special rights and the government stay out of marriage, then that should apply to everyone-gay or straight.  Either make marriage even across the board for all couples who chose to make that level of commitment, or take marriage off the table as a legal commitment for everyone.  My wife and I have a legal domestic partnership and had a marriage ceremony for friends and family.  I see no reason why, if the government shouldn&#8217;t mandate marriage (which it I&#8217;m all for), the same type of situation shouldn&#8217;t work for everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Christiana</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13357</link>
		<dc:creator>Christiana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13357</guid>
		<description>Tim

There should not be special rights just equal rights. Why is that so bad. Why should heterosexual married people enjoy special rights that others do not have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim</p>
<p>There should not be special rights just equal rights. Why is that so bad. Why should heterosexual married people enjoy special rights that others do not have.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim McClure</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13346</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McClure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Feb 2011 01:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13346</guid>
		<description>They are after all &quot;conservatives&quot; What else would you expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are after all &#8220;conservatives&#8221; What else would you expect.</p>
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		<title>By: Alison Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13333</link>
		<dc:creator>Alison Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13333</guid>
		<description>I called and the receptionist seemed confused. They need some more calls- bump it up people!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I called and the receptionist seemed confused. They need some more calls- bump it up people!</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Condon</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13301</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Condon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13301</guid>
		<description>I disagree. The push for recognition of gay marriage is not a fight for &quot;equal rights,&quot; it is an attempt to modify the culture through government power. It is also an attempt to obtain the use of government power over other people and entities in the form of contracts, legal relationships, insurance, etc. In short, it is an attempt to expand state power through extending the use of state power to yet another &quot;favored group.&quot; Libertarians don&#039;t believe state power should be used by any group for any purpose other than to protect life, rights, and property. I oppose favored status for gays, as I oppose favored status for every other minority that currently enjoys it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree. The push for recognition of gay marriage is not a fight for &#8220;equal rights,&#8221; it is an attempt to modify the culture through government power. It is also an attempt to obtain the use of government power over other people and entities in the form of contracts, legal relationships, insurance, etc. In short, it is an attempt to expand state power through extending the use of state power to yet another &#8220;favored group.&#8221; Libertarians don&#8217;t believe state power should be used by any group for any purpose other than to protect life, rights, and property. I oppose favored status for gays, as I oppose favored status for every other minority that currently enjoys it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13299</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 16:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13299</guid>
		<description>A few issues such as marriage seem to be hopelessly confusing both to some people who describe themselves as conservation and to some who describe themselves as libertarian.  The Constitution and the Bible only seem to be incompatible if one insists that the Constitution dictates religion or the Bible dictates government.  It&#039;s actually rather easy to believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman without having to demand that the government enforce that belief.  As a real libertarian, I&#039;d prefer to see the government to get out of the marriage business completely, and leave the matter entirely up to individuals and their beliefs (religious or other).

I like to compare the situation to the old story about Churchill asking a woman if she would sleep with him for a million pounds.  When she shyly agrees, he ponders it for a minute and then asks her if she&#039;d sleep with him for 5 schillings.  Outraged, she says &quot;What sort of a woman do you think I am?&quot;.  Churchill calmly replies, &quot;We&#039;ve already determined that; now we&#039;re just negotiating price.&quot;  Social conservatives like to say that they want the government to stay out of their religion.  When they insist that government limit marriage or discriminate against gays, they are openly accepting government interference in religion, as long as it favors their personal beliefs.  Similarly, libertarians can&#039;t maintain consistently that marriage is a personal issue and that government should enforce a marriage policy of which they personally approve but others don&#039;t.  Getting government out of marriage completely is the only truly libertarian approach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few issues such as marriage seem to be hopelessly confusing both to some people who describe themselves as conservation and to some who describe themselves as libertarian.  The Constitution and the Bible only seem to be incompatible if one insists that the Constitution dictates religion or the Bible dictates government.  It&#8217;s actually rather easy to believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman without having to demand that the government enforce that belief.  As a real libertarian, I&#8217;d prefer to see the government to get out of the marriage business completely, and leave the matter entirely up to individuals and their beliefs (religious or other).</p>
<p>I like to compare the situation to the old story about Churchill asking a woman if she would sleep with him for a million pounds.  When she shyly agrees, he ponders it for a minute and then asks her if she&#8217;d sleep with him for 5 schillings.  Outraged, she says &#8220;What sort of a woman do you think I am?&#8221;.  Churchill calmly replies, &#8220;We&#8217;ve already determined that; now we&#8217;re just negotiating price.&#8221;  Social conservatives like to say that they want the government to stay out of their religion.  When they insist that government limit marriage or discriminate against gays, they are openly accepting government interference in religion, as long as it favors their personal beliefs.  Similarly, libertarians can&#8217;t maintain consistently that marriage is a personal issue and that government should enforce a marriage policy of which they personally approve but others don&#8217;t.  Getting government out of marriage completely is the only truly libertarian approach.</p>
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		<title>By: LibertyBelle</title>
		<link>http://www.rlc.org/equal-rights-exclusion/comment-page-1/#comment-13293</link>
		<dc:creator>LibertyBelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 15:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rlc.org/?p=4148#comment-13293</guid>
		<description>Sounds like the ACU genuinely feels threatened by the presence of pro-liberty thought. I&#039;d imagine the RLC poses an especially strong threat as it seeks to reform the Republican party from within. Those who tend to identify as &quot;conservative&quot; (which ironically, has little to do with the conservation American values--liberty, not Christianity--or the Constitution) do not support individual rights, and the presence of so many libertarian-leaning Republicans scares the hell out of them. The Constitution and the Bible aren&#039;t exactly compatible, which means that embracing one means giving up important tenets of the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like the ACU genuinely feels threatened by the presence of pro-liberty thought. I&#8217;d imagine the RLC poses an especially strong threat as it seeks to reform the Republican party from within. Those who tend to identify as &#8220;conservative&#8221; (which ironically, has little to do with the conservation American values&#8211;liberty, not Christianity&#8211;or the Constitution) do not support individual rights, and the presence of so many libertarian-leaning Republicans scares the hell out of them. The Constitution and the Bible aren&#8217;t exactly compatible, which means that embracing one means giving up important tenets of the other.</p>
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